tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4660901311853360160.post8173654799483166455..comments2023-05-08T05:02:15.918-07:00Comments on Free Lemming: Free Trade, Free Speech and Free ImmigrationUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger5125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4660901311853360160.post-44203839856765701952010-02-01T05:56:41.046-08:002010-02-01T05:56:41.046-08:00I agree that I need to think my position out furth...I agree that I need to think my position out further. Attacking the welfare state first may prove more effective than restricting immigration to mitigate the negative social and economic effects that entitlement programs cause. Incidentally, Mexicans, who are currently the majority of immigrants, are some of the hardest workers out there. But American culture, which is intentionally being destroyed by the statists, does not consistently present the argument to Mexicans that liberty is a key component of the prosperity that they have come to partake in. More Mexicans need to know that freedom is the major reason that we are not Mexico - though our political corruption is fast approaching and in some ways even dwarfs that of the Mexican government. Mexicans may know it instinctively, but they generally need to be more informed on the founding of the country, and the principles behind it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4660901311853360160.post-77656087959617002010-02-01T05:46:35.775-08:002010-02-01T05:46:35.775-08:00But doesn't it make more sense to fight the ro...But doesn't it make more sense to fight the root of the problem - the welfare state, not its consequences? <br />By the way, consider where this logic would carry you. Wouldn't it open up tremendous possibilities for violating all sorts of individual rights in order to protect America's freedom? For instance, there are tycoons who finance leftist politicians (Ron Paul doesn't get much funding from big business, eh?). Why don't we put restrictions on these tycoons' businesses? Ah, only for the purpose of protecting American liberty! Why don't we put restrictions on the leftist press? <br />Do you see the problem? I'm not saying I have the solution but the problem does exist. There is a bit of a contradiction and it should be thoroughly analyzed.Reaganxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11767392975509574516noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4660901311853360160.post-22903810858166655722010-02-01T05:37:46.915-08:002010-02-01T05:37:46.915-08:00But we should always remember that it's a very...But we should always remember that it's a very tricky issue. For instance, would you support restrictions on gun ownership if the majority of Americans were leftists who would use their guns to usher in a socialist revolution?Reaganxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11767392975509574516noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4660901311853360160.post-3659443152489947882010-02-01T05:35:05.234-08:002010-02-01T05:35:05.234-08:00Basically we agree on this but I just wanted to ma...Basically we agree on this but I just wanted to make it clear that opposition to immigration per se is intolerable. You may understand this but many conservatives don't. <br />I admit that it may stand to reason that destroying the welfare state is the first priority and eliminating restrictions on immigration is the second one. Though I would also argue that the left doesn't need immigration to destroy America. I would do so without illegal immigrants just as well. <br />It may also be argued that the Cloward-Piven strategy may result in the opposite - the welfare state will just collapse, and a free society will emerge. It depends on the cultural atmosphere of that period.Reaganxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11767392975509574516noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4660901311853360160.post-75270125521397402952010-02-01T05:06:41.057-08:002010-02-01T05:06:41.057-08:00I don't oppose more (illegal) immigration at t...I don't oppose more (illegal) immigration at this time because I dislike foreigners. I dislike the radicals' attempt to destroy America through (illegal) immigration. The Cloward-Piven strategy of collapsing the welfare state by adding as many to the entitlement rolls as possible, until the economic system implodes and the socialist-statists can build their totalitarian fantasy-state, is very much a key issue. No libertarian would ever endorse restricting immigration if the understood rules of the game were that one live in freedom and never use the state to coerce others out of their rightfully earned property. But we are far from that day when a rule of law respects the natural rights of American citizens. <br /><br />My opposition to illegal immigration is not based on principle, but on self-preservation. When the welfare state retreats, as well as such entitlement programs as public education, then my opposition to illegal immigration will retreat as well. It is not that I want to restrict immigration, which would be quite hypocritical, but I want to dampen our trajectory towards economic implosion. If the economic system collapses, it is hard to see how the state will refrain itself from usurping even more of our rights in the guise of "helping" us.<br /><br />To sum up, immigration under normal conditions is fine, and in fact, none of the state's concern The welfare state sucks because it makes the affairs of others everyone's business, which is a tragic state of affairs. If the Democrats manage to pull off a nationalized healthcare system, which would not even have the requirement of a citizenship test for access(!) (not that I really think that is a main objection to the potential freedom-killing debacle), then the situation will deteriorate further for those who value liberty.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com